First topic message reminder :

So area 51..
Responsible for hundreds of UFO sightings, mysterious lights that travel at extreme speeds.
Area 51 is keeping alien technology inside of the base and denied that it ever exists.
I belive that there are actully extraterrestrial beings within the base.


Here is a website created by a former worker of area 51, Bob Lazar.
http://www.boblazar.com/closed/index.html
takes about 15-30 mins to read the site.

Does that mean you won't look it up? Those are the actual "adaptations" of thos words over time....


Or as you call them... "mutations".

ok


you cannot just adapt to a whole new environment and survive, as with the fish thing, its not possible without some sort of ADAPTIVE mutation.

they are linked

you can't have one without the other

like if everyone started to only eat rice, in time our bodies would adapt so that rice is the most beneficial food to us. BUT it could not happen without mutation! the genes mutate in order for the organism to benefit more from a specific thing.

Shadow wrote:
like if everyone started to only eat rice

That California talk has gotten to you fast...

That's always the problem when someone is wrong.... they try and "cut a deal" so that both people are right... so they arnt as wrong.

No. The term mutation has nothing to due with evolution. At all. Ever.


Its no offense, you just used the wrong word. You may be tall... but Im smart.

you're not smart... you're retarded and narrow minded

and short

Actually... If you look up the meanings yourself....

Due to your hight and your facts about your families past when it came to height....You are a mutant.

You did not "evolve" to a new height due to your surroundings, situations, atmospheric pressures, or even the land you come from. Your genes "mutated" for what ever reason causing you to have a difference from your families normality.


I suggest an in game name change? *pWp*Mutant* ftw!

explain crop circles.

Tad: lets not bring religion into this please (:

Tool: How long has man kind lived on this earth? Also where do you get the idea that we are living longer, wtf? If anything it is shorter.


EDIT:
Ooops forgot about

Ganj: I saw on TV how those are made, they get these boards with strings and step down the crops and to make a perfect circle they have one person stand in the middle with a rope while the other pushes the crops down. It is a prank they do.

Ganj: Let me also ask you this, so you are telling me aliens come from thousands and millions and billions of miles away just to make a pattern in our crops then they just leave?

You can't talk about aliens without religion... in any way, shape, or form.

And if Im not mistaken, Virt.... you brought up the bible... All I said was religion really meant nothing to me.... So Im confused at what you mean.

Well you basically said that Heaven, Hell & God were not real. It is no big deal and I understand I brought the bible into it. Also I am confused what does aliens have to do with religion? lol

I still believe that aliens were considered angels back then. I mean do you really believe that men with wings flew from another world ?

Anything unexplained, one way or another, traces back to religion. Even you asked about the biblical sense of this topic. It's impossible to talk about a mystical creation with out talking about a "God". For all facts and matter, if there was a "god"... he would be the one who made these other interplanetary creatures... correct? So for there to be an alien race... God would have had to make it.... hence introducing religion into alien talk...

I think we're sort of getting off topic here. This is about whether or not Area 51 is keeping aliens or alien technology hidden inside the base.

But first..

@Virt: We actually are living longer. If you research the average life expectancy of people in, oh, let's say, 100 A.D., it would probably be around 25 to 32. If you remember from U.S. History, we found out that colonists lived to be anywhere from 40-55 (except Ben Franklin...old fart). Now we are in a time where the average lifespan is roughly 70 to 80. Slowly, through generations, humans are becoming more and more evolved to live longer, healthier lives. Of course many factors such as junk food, smoking, drinking, and drugs, affect this.

virtuosity wrote:

I have a few questions for the people that believe in evolution...
#1: If some how evolution was real and we morphed into humans then where in the line of evolution did blood get made? I mean if we did come from this Earth then how come we have to donate blood and not find it on the Earth?
#2: Why aren't animals and such still morphing?
#3: If evolution did occur how come humans aren't morphing into something new and better or different?

Also let me ask you this how did other species or aliens whatever you want to call them become that way? Did they go through evolution to? Are they made up of blood? Are their bodies built the same as humans? Do they have organs?

1) Why on earth does Earth would Earth have blood? I am assuming you are talking about the piece of rock that we live on...Why would it have blood? But lots of species have blood...

2) Animals are still evolving... evolution takes very short amount of time since the whole idea is that a "mistake" or "change" in their DNA code will give them a slight advantage.... This + lots and lots of years = evolution. A good example of this is bacterias, they multiply fast (once every 20 min or so) (DNA gets copied many times). Like 80 years ago, when penicillin first came out, it killed alot of diseases (that were caused by bacteria). But now some diseases are back, and resistant to many advanced medicines that humans have. This is because small changes to their gene can make them resistant, and when everybody else is dead, the new mutated thing becomes the dominant ones. Thus forcing us to make a new medicine.

I want to make a note that the bacteria or any other organism is not doing this consciously... They had random gene mutation, They had an advantage (most didn't but the few that did), they survived, they reproduced.
This is evolution. Not god.... =/

3) stop using the word morph.... you make it sound like this happened in a matter of days! It didn't! But here is a few things we know as human evolution. For example, our tailbone. A very old remnant of our old lineage... (in fact if you look at human fetuses, they look remarkably similar to other species')
Another one, our pink toes. We used to use them to climb and stuff but since civilization they are decreasing... soon be gone....
Another one, skin colour.... dark skin = more protection from the sun. (unless one uses the arguement that god simply created them differently and put them there..)

There are HUGE number of places where u see this type of stuff in nature... the evidences that darwin found... ! read them sometimes!

Attn: T@D

READ THIS DAMMIT

TheRustySpoon wrote:
2) Animals are still evolving... evolution takes very short amount of time since the whole idea is that a "mistake" or "change" in their DNA code will give them a slight advantage.... This + lots and lots of years = evolution. A good example of this is bacterias, they multiply fast (once every 20 min or so) (DNA gets copied many times). Like 80 years ago, when penicillin first came out, it killed alot of diseases (that were caused by bacteria). But now some diseases are back, and resistant to many advanced medicines that humans have. This is because small changes to their gene can make them resistant, and when everybody else is dead, the new mutated thing becomes the dominant ones. Thus forcing us to make a new medicine.

I want to make a note that the bacteria or any other organism is not doing this consciously... They had random gene mutation, They had an advantage (most didn't but the few that did), they survived, they reproduced.
This is evolution. Not god.... =/

T@D wrote:Mutations are changes in the DNA sequence of a cell's genome and are caused by radiation, viruses, transposons and mutagenic chemicals, as well as errors that occur during meiosis or DNA replication.

Adaptation is the evolutionary process whereby a population becomes better suited to its habitat. This process takes place over many generations, and is one of the basic phenomena of biology.

They are completely two different things. Completely.

Adaption is the result of natural selection (Killing off the weak, and the strong survives)... A species that is faced with an threat to survival will not try to adapt.

It just happens. The strong one had a genetic advantage, whether through mutation (its more common than you think, actually its scary how often the human genome screw up during multiplying and it sometimes have a very large impact ) or plain by chance (their parents genes mixed to produce a very very nice result (note this is not adaption), there can be mutations here too, (see genetic disease(ie, people with one extra chromosome))). Either way the resulting organism has a distinct genetic advantage to that of his species, and this drives them to doom and him to sucess.

Lets look at that sickle cell disease. If i remember correctly, ONE BASE of the GCAT DNA sequence was wrong in the which coded for the protein (i think hemoglobin) which made the blood cell from a nice disk shape into a this sickle thing. Now people normally die from this. But in some parts of africa it is good to have half of this disease (co-dominance or something.... ) basically your blood cell is sorta fucked. But the point is these people have an advantage, because the disease malaria has one stage where it needs to use the blood cell, and the sickle celled people and the half sickle celled people is immune to this since their shape does not allow the that stage to occur.
Normally this sickle cell disease would be eliminated since the people who have it are at an disadvantage to the rest. But since they makes them immune to malaria, the person with Sickle/sickle and normal/normal is more likely to die than people with the sickle/normal gene.

DNA is the driving force of natural selection whether by mutation or plain genetic exchanges. Adaption is just the result of this, how a species seemingly "conquer" the new threat. Natural selection is basically the process where those who are "adapted" is advantageous to pass on their genetic information to the next generation. The theory of evolution basically sums everything up

I can agree with part of that. Adaptation is a "part" of natural selection. Mutation has nothing to do with adaptation nor natural selection. A mutation is an unforeseen change in DNA that is NOT connected to the situation of the being. Adaptation, like evolution is a change to a being... over time... which may make changes due to their situations.

Mutation and adaptation is not anywhere near the same thing... at all.

A mutation can happen at any time with no warning or meaning... an adaptation is a slow change to adapt to a difference in your surrounding.

I do not believe that DNA is the driving force to natural selection though... by any means. You can't tell me that the changes or even mutations to DNA of any species is directly connected to their demise. There is no proof, anywhere... what so ever to show that. Science and even some bum on the street can show that some species become extinct due to many reasons..... alot being man..... Us. We did it, more often then not.

Thats fine if you want to think that way.... but thats being as self indulgent as I was saying earlier about our general beliefs if aliens exist....

Hundreds of species go extinct monthly..... we didn't cause them all.. .but we have had out hands in alot of it. Blame the whales, pandas, and white tigers for their demise due to DNA? No.

OH YEH ALIENS!
>_> I dont think there are aliens in area51. Here is a logical flow chart (well not a chart) ...

To have aliens there we need to assume that the aliens crashed into the Earth.

Since the closests stars are... 4 or 5 lightyears away, we have to assume they are either:
1) Developed close to light travel with or without the aid of cryogenics
2) Developed faster than light travel.

Either way to travel here, one would need a ship or some sort of device that will contain them.
By travelling that far, I will assume the ship is made of materials that humans have not developed runing on a technology that human has not developed
the result is:
- Big/Technologically advanced ship

Now they are outside and maybe they want to search for life. But the first broadcast into space was hitlers' speech in 1935 http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080805103405AABLmPr
Roswell was 1947. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roswell_UFO_Incident

Now if they were in alpha centuri 4.37 lightyears(the closest star system http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha_Centauri), they would have need to travel at 0.35 the speed of light! (UNBELIEVABLY FAST)

So, the aliens could have either
1) heard us and thus used a very fast ship (require a huge system for propulsion))
2) have been searching randomly...for aVERY VERY LONG TIME NOW)
Both cases needs something HUGE! propulsion, food/nutrience, support systems....

OK! So wat do we have, if they crashed on earth, they would have had a HUGE ship with extreme amounts of technology that some how screwed up? A crash of that size would have left distinct signatures/anomalies that should be testable. More so to store the alien technology on a base, but some how no nations has been sucessful at getting a spy into there?

Conclusion: USA is not holding aliens hostage! Neither is any other nations!

Other stuff:
Aliens must exist, now whether we'll ever find them? If we dont kill our selves then yes!

T@D wrote:
A mutation can happen at any time with no warning or meaning... an adaptation is a slow change to adapt to a difference in your surrounding.

Thats the problem. Are you telling me that the species are willingly changing to adapt? Throughout the natural word, like the finches on the galapagos islands, they changed physically to suit the environment. They adapted. But they didn't go "oh i think it would be beneficial for me to have a longer beak for _____ since it'll make finding food faster". It happened, and its in their genetics. They didn't want to to happen, the ones with disadvantages simply got out advantaged.

T@D wrote:
I do not believe that DNA is the driving force to natural selection though... by any means. You can't tell me that the changes or even mutations to DNA of any species is directly connected to their demise. There is no proof, anywhere... what so ever to show that. Science and even some bum on the street can show that some species become extinct due to many reasons..... alot being man..... Us. We did it, more often then not.

There is proof. Bacteria demise in the previous example. Now, yes we did create problems, one is during the industrial revolution in britain there were moths. The tree there is white bark or something. Anyways. Before, the population was primary white ish months. DUring the revolutio, enormous amounds of soot and other stuff effectively made the trees darker. And as a result the population was then tested and found it was primarily darkish moths.

Looking headon, one would assume that the moths just changed because well they wanted to adapt and they adapted. But thats not the case. Birds spoted the dark ones when the tree was white. Similarly the birds spoted the white ones when the bark was dark. The dark ones then dominated the population as they can pass on their DNA (coding for darkness) and the white ones could not. .

T@D wrote:
Thats fine if you want to think that way.... but thats being as self indulgent as I was saying earlier about our general beliefs if aliens exist....
Hundreds of species go extinct monthly..... we didn't cause them all.. .but we have had out hands in alot of it. Blame the whales, pandas, and white tigers for their demise due to DNA? No.

Every problem whether manmade or not is just another obstacle. Whether the species can overcome it completely different. Think abuot why humans are at the top? We have our knowledge. Sure we suck at pretty much every other thing, but due to our thinking skills, we ARE the dominant race, and we ARE outcompleting those animals.

There is no need to blame them for their DNA. Its just the matter of life that we are superior, and if we want to kill them they really cannot do anhything about it (being what they are at the moment). This applies to every predator - prey relationship in this world. DNA makes what we are.

I hate to disagree with spooner... cause I find you to be one of the most intelligent people that even log into this site.... No offense everyone else... hes Asian.


But, you are looking at things, as I said before, with tunnel vision. Can a craft travel 4.37 light years in a matter of minutes?.... to our species intelligence... no... they can not. It's an impossible feat, no one can do it.

Why? Why are we so "in control" of science and technology to be able to even argue the fact that yes... we have no clue of space travel.... no clue whats actually possible. We are strictly a theory based species.

I find it hard to believe a species with such a high technical level can have such a huge screw up. Granted we do not know alot about spacetravel, but there is convention propulsion using various stuff, but all basically comes to newton's 3rd law of action/reaction. But something outside the conventional propulsion, something that can truely make a species an intergalactic species... I think the chances of screwing up on arriving to earth is fairly slim.

Whats more slim is how they have not escaped or how other governments have not found out about them.

I dont know, its possible but its so unlikely that i treat it in my mind as an impossible.