First topic message reminder :

You can't find a better starting topic then to debate the existing of God... or it being one of the worlds largest lies. Cultures on every single land space believe in some sort of higher power.


What do you think?

Shadow, not Smokey hehe sorry:P
I understand what your saying, however there are litterally Millions of people that prove what your saying to be wrong. Yes i respect and understand that its Your opinion, but can you not agree that what i said can be true of others? That, just the belief in something can save their lives?

Tool, the old sterotype that Jews are cheap is based on actuality. The Jews were THE bankers and money lenders of their time. And some banks have ties back to 2,000 years ago. Banks and money lenders even today put interest on what the lend, or hold. If thats not profieting off of some one else i dont know what is.

In my view, there is no lottery (THERE IS NO SPOON). And there is not a shred of doubt in my mind. Such costs for this "lottery" will be dishonesty to yourself (will god judge you if you "dont really believe" but pretend you do?), also a waste of time and energy and undoubtedly money on my part.

Now i have no problem with other people buying this lottery. Because to them it is not a lottery, it is not chance. It is a fact. And if they believe in that fact, then go ahead and i dont mind. I believe that they are wrong, that is why i am not in it and it simply ends there. No hate, no prejudice. Now for the type of religious people that does piss me off, you have to read the other thread!

@CAT

I think you missed the point of the last paragraph, I asked why would they believe in something like that when it's truly irrelevant. Because if you can be "saved' by it becuase your faith "allows" you to have increased willpower to overcome... Why use religion for that? If you can't muster the willpower to save yourself for yourself or your family's sake, but you can for an imaginary "divine power's" sake... That's wrong to me and I feel it's borderline insanity.

Well what your saying i think is crazier. If it takes the belief that if someone killed themselves they would go to hell, to change a persons perspective on life, then im all for it.
I dont see how you can say its insanity for a person to not want to kill themselves because of God.

No that's not what I'm saying at all...

I'm saying, that if the "Power of God" in their lives, is the sole cause for why they want to live, is insanity. If they cannot live for themselves or their family, but can live because of the belief in a figment of their imagination. That, in my eyes, is insanity.

Ex:
John is in a car wreck, he hates his family, hates his life, and hates himself... But loves "God". John chooses to fight for his life because of his love for "God". Not for himself, not for his family, but for a figment of his imagination. He could save himself regardless of "God", "God" is just the catalyst that motivates himself to keep living. I think that is insanity because of the fact that life is a gift and for someone to ONLY have the belief in "God" for motivation, is crazy.

Shadow, I believe you are missing quite a bit mainly in your example.

First off having a belief in God does not mean you are some bible thumping holy roller who has dedicated their lives to live soley for God, and nothing else. Having a belief in God has an extreme amount of levels. Hell, just a belief in something dosent indicate what your morals and daily practices are.

But... staying on your "type" of people.... your example would be 100% incorrect. Growing up in church and seeing these types of situations often, those people who believe that storngly would rather be taken to heaven then be alive. They believe that their deaths are in the hands of God. So argumentatively, that example holds no weight.

Well, you just kinda made my point.

Growing up in church and seeing these types of situations often, those people who believe that storngly would rather be taken to heaven then be alive.

That's ridiculous in my eyes.

I did grow up in a religious setting in a religious family, when I was 10 I spoke out against it all and that's why I'm the "black sheep" of my family.

Your over-complicating the matter. Don't follow religion blindly study the facts figure out what religion is right for you and follow it all the way. Personally I've studied almost every religion around as well as every "divinely inspired book" and I've come up with a sort of equation [ If a book = inspired by a perfect being. Then the book = perfect. ] It's kind of common sense if you believe God wrote the bible then the bible must be flawless. It can't be self conflicting because a religion that self conflicts cannot be perfect therefore cannot stand. So far I've eliminated my search down to one single religion. Good luck finding yours.

Shadow wrote:No that's not what I'm saying at all...

I'm saying, that if the "Power of God" in their lives, is the sole cause for why they want to live, is insanity. If they cannot live for themselves or their family, but can live because of the belief in a figment of their imagination. That, in my eyes, is insanity.

Ex:
John is in a car wreck, he hates his family, hates his life, and hates himself... But loves "God". John chooses to fight for his life because of his love for "God". Not for himself, not for his family, but for a figment of his imagination. He could save himself regardless of "God", "God" is just the catalyst that motivates himself to keep living. I think that is insanity because of the fact that life is a gift and for someone to ONLY have the belief in "God" for motivation, is crazy.

That's why I hate religion. The bible preaches balance not fanaticism. It's men that corrupt religion. Don't blame God for something man has done.

Hmm I believe there is a God seeing that i was raised in a Southern baptist family

the real question i wanna ask you is WHat are you losing by not putting faith in God? I mean if your wrong and youa ll go to hell would you have wanted to believe anyways just so your soul wouldnt suffer?

Thats all ima be pushing i dont like to push my religon on others

L1fe wrote:Your over-complicating the matter. Don't follow religion blindly study the facts figure out what religion is right for you and follow it all the way. Personally I've studied almost every religion around as well as every "divinely inspired book" and I've come up with a sort of equation [ If a book = inspired by a perfect being. Then the book = perfect. ] It's kind of common sense if you believe God wrote the bible then the bible must be flawless. It can't be self conflicting because a religion that self conflicts cannot be perfect therefore cannot stand. So far I've eliminated my search down to one single religion. Good luck finding yours.

In hand though God didnt write the the bible Gods people did =P

Legacy wrote:

the real question i wanna ask you is WHat are you losing by not putting faith in God? I mean if your wrong and youa ll go to hell would you have wanted to believe anyways just so your soul wouldnt suffer?

Thats my point. Pascals Wager. You can't win with out playing the game. And if you followed the biblical beliefs and moral structures and there is no heaven..... all you did was live a good, moral life.

Whats to lose?

I believe there is a god...just that we haven't seen him/her/it yet.

T@D wrote:

Legacy wrote:

the real question i wanna ask you is WHat are you losing by not putting faith in God? I mean if your wrong and youa ll go to hell would you have wanted to believe anyways just so your soul wouldnt suffer?

Thats my point. Pascals Wager. You can't win with out playing the game. And if you followed the biblical beliefs and moral structures and there is no heaven..... all you did was live a good, moral life.

Whats to lose?

like the saying goes "better safe than sorry"

T@D wrote:

Legacy wrote:

the real question i wanna ask you is WHat are you losing by not putting faith in God? I mean if your wrong and youa ll go to hell would you have wanted to believe anyways just so your soul wouldnt suffer?

Thats my point. Pascals Wager. You can't win with out playing the game. And if you followed the biblical beliefs and moral structures and there is no heaven..... all you did was live a good, moral life.

Whats to lose?

The thing is, it's not because we don't want to believe it, but because we can't. I honestly can't believe in someone who sits up in the sky watching over 7 billion people every single day (except Sunday I guess) and is all-knowing, all-seeing, and all-being. I mean, seriously...to me that's just a bunch of nonsense invented by someone. Actually, it's more like an imaginary friend that a child would make up to keep them company. Maybe that's what God is, just part of your imagination. To you it might be real, to me it's not. If I could believe in the idea of a God, I would probably "play the game". But it's just the missteps in logic and reason between faith and reality that put me in a position unable to believe.

If you believe in God for selfish reasons, and it turns out he does exist, wouldn't he know that you're being a fake believer? Isn't that the theory behind an all-powerful, all-knowing god? So why fool yourself?

Lazarus McDeathsinger wrote:If you believe in God for selfish reasons, and it turns out he does exist, wouldn't he know that you're being a fake believer? Isn't that the theory behind an all-powerful, all-knowing god? So why fool yourself?

how would he know if he never existed?

He doesn't, that's the point.

You're saying people should believe just in case he DOES exist. If he DOES exist, he would be able to tell the difference between the ones that really followed "his will" and the fake believers who just believed to be "better safe than sorry", right? Because that's the depiction of god, an all-knowing one.

So if you don't believe, don't. Believing to be "better safe than sorry" is no more than a redundancy that is not relevant to this discussion.

Lazarus McDeathsinger wrote:He doesn't, that's the point.

You're saying people should believe just in case he DOES exist. If he DOES exist, he would be able to tell the difference between the ones that really followed "his will" and the fake believers who just believed to be "better safe than sorry", right? Because that's the depiction of god, an all-knowing one.

So if you don't believe, don't. Believing to be "better safe than sorry" is no more than a redundancy that is not relevant to this discussion.

i really dotn want to break out my bible and start pulling out verses for you lol

This is not about christianity specifically. However, go ahead, pull out some verses that say that those who pretend to follow "the word of god" for their personal benefit are granted into heaven or whatever.

Lazarus McDeathsinger wrote:This is not about christianity specifically. However, go ahead, pull out some verses that say that those who pretend to follow "the word of god" for their personal benefit are granted into heaven or whatever.

If you accept christ and your of christian belief the only way for you not to go to hell is to deny god that is one of the unforgivable sins